Death Topics?

ch0n60 made the following post in the Santa Monica Lair:

Ok. Death Topics. Many of you have heard, or maybe truly believe that these things are taboo when in a conversation with a woman. I used to think that way too, but in reality, these are not bad things to talk about.

So if you don't know, a death topic is...

Where are you from?
What do you do?
How long have you lived here?

These topics by themselves aren't what's boring. It's how you ask them, and also, how you respond to them that is the boring part.


Why do people think they are bad?

Most believe these are bad, because you are not engaging the woman in any interesting sort of conversation. You are talking about boring things, and the woman will not develop any attraction to this type of thing.

Simple question. Simple response. The conversation may go like this..

ch0n60: where are you from?
hb: the valley
ch0n60: cool. what do you do?
hb: I'm a nurse.
ch0n60: i bet thats fun.
(awkward silence)

Also, by asking these type of questions, you are putting yourself into the same category as all the 100s of other men who hit on her.



How can I use these Death Topics to my advantage?

The key to death topics is to reword them to your advantage. Demand a response that is more than one word. Demand a well thought out answer so that she is committed to engaging you in conversation.

The beauty of these topics is that not only do people like talking about themselves; they already know the answers to your questions! There is no pressure on them to be witty or funny or calculate an equation. They just have to talk about their lives.

It is your responsibility to ask this question, so her answer gives you more information about her other than just "the valley".

ch0n60: Hi. I'm ch0n60
hb: Hi ch0n60, i'm hb
ch0n60: Glad to meet you hb, you seem very friendly. What kind of exciting thing do you do for a living?
hb: Oh, I'm a nurse, but it's not that exciting.
ch0n60: Bah. I have nurse friends, and they have all kinds of stories. What is the most interesting, maybe crazy?, thing that's happened to you.
(pause.. let there be some awkward silence)
hb: um... well, one time, .. yada yada.
ch0n60: holy crap. that IS crazy. The craziest thing that happened to me at work is ... blah blah.
hb: haha. weird.
ch0n60: yeah, .... who are you here with?
hb: oh, my coworkers, they are over there.
ch0n60: awesome, I'm just hanging out with some friends, come on over, i'll introduce you.

Well, the first question was a basic question, but after that, you can turn anything they say into an open ended question, but that's an entirely different thread.

My point here is that you can use these "death topics" to your advantage, you just have to extract useful information from the woman (or whoever you're talking to), in order to ask the next question.

MY response:

I totally agree with Ch0n60 in this regard especially when it comes to using direct game, but in reality, the principles that Ch0n60's post talk about can be applied in any conversation or any type of game.

I actually use ALL of these questions in my sarges. Why? It helps tell a girl about who I am and won't put a girl even more on the defensive or creep them out by talking about some random topic. However, I never respond to their answers or give my own responses in a standard, straight-forward, logical way.

The key to any interaction is to make the conversations interesting no matter what subject matter you end up talking about. At the same time, you want what you say/all of your stories to always tell the girl something about yourself.

You need to show the girl that you are real, normal, and not some crazy weirdo.

Routines are great for keeping conversations interesting because they are easy conversation pieces and can lead to multiple other tangents to talk about. That is why routine-based game is so successful. The key is to understand the underlying principles behind routine-based game, which is to keep conversations fun and interesting.

I will give an example of what I'm talking about (I actually have stories for all 3 of those questions, but I will use one of mine to illustrate what I mean).

What NOT to do:

HB: Where are you from?
D: Orange County. You?
HB: Cool. Somewhere else...(thinking: wow, lame)

What TO do:

HB: Where are you from?
D: Well, I'm originally from Orange County. OC. Not THE OC. I hate it when people call it that. You don't call LA, THE LA. That's retarded.
HB: *usually laughs*
D: But yeah, I actually grew up in a white, upper middle class neighborhood and lead a pretty sheltered life. You know how California and LA are generally considered to be pretty liberal?
HB: Yeah...
D: Well, OC is completely the opposite, no matter what the show might tell you. It's completely conservative. Everyone, well, at least in my part of OC, is very religious, very proper, very conservative. When I finally went to UCLA, it was a complete eye-opener. It was a life-changing experience. I was partying every night. It was a blast! *smile*
HB: *usually laughs*
D: *Laugh* I've actually really come around to enjoy living in LA. Other than the traffic... I just feel like I fit in better here...blah blah blah

And I can keep going on. It would really depend on the girl and how she interjects into the conversation. This story also helps for when I tell the girl more about myself. For example, when I tell her what type of music I like, she can understand why - I grew up in a white, upper middle class neighborhood. At the end of my story or even in the middle, if the girl's a good conversationalist, she should interject and tell me about herself, where she comes from, her experiences, etc. If she's not, I can just ask her, what about you?

Like you've probably heard many times, it's better to have conversations where you don't ask questions and are making statements. That's essentially what I am doing here. It's a lot more interesting and provides a basis to build a conversation upon.

Hopefully, this illustrates that death topics really are not "death" at all, but rather, they are something you should get accustomed to talking about as they can be a great tool to use.

Come Come Paradise

Holiday (11:46:36 AM): did you engage in makeout tactics strategy 1
D (11:46:54 AM): no, no makeout
Holiday (11:46:59 AM): makeout tactics!
Holiday (11:47:14 AM): makeout tactics lead to come come paradise
D (11:47:24 AM): LOL
D (11:47:25 AM): omg
D (11:47:29 AM): i can't believe you said that
D (11:47:29 AM): LOL
Holiday (11:47:57 AM): HAHA

High Energy vs Just Being Loud

So there was a recent discussion on the Santa Monica Lair about the difference between running "high energy" game and running "just plain loud" game.

The following is my post in the lair:

"High energy" is completely different from "just plain loud" game. They are mutually exclusive but can be used together with success.

When I think of being "high energy," I think of projecting an image that shows you are 1) not tired even after a long day/week of work, 2) you are excited and happy to be out, and 3) your "energy" level is higher than the majority of people you are around. Don't take this too far -- don't be like the Energizer Bunny on steroids and caffeine. That in turn will scare girls off. As with anything in pick-up, this has to be calibrated properly to work. You want to set your "energy level" only slightly over that of the people you are talking too. That is when it is most effective. Doing "high energy" game properly will show that you're a fun person to be around and that you are the life of the party. It will also help to bring up the energy level and overall state of the people around you. Girls like that.

Example: Back in the day when I was first starting out, we were in Vegas and I opened a 3 set of girls. I had calibrated high energy and the girls were really upbeat and having a good time. I was about to eject to go find my friend, but they said I should have my friend join the 4 of us, so I go get him and introduce him. It had been a long night and he was pretty tired, so he had low energy. Whenever he talked to the girls, the girls also got tired. One or two even yawned. However, whenever I would start talking with high energy, the girls would perk up and start to show signs of excitement. Alas, the set died and we left, but it was obvious the effect having "high energy" could have in set.

"Loud environment" game is different in that you're trying to make yourself be heard over the loud music and other background noise that may be going on. It relies more on the ability to project your voice. By being able to make yourself heard, you exhibit Dominance, which is an attraction switch for girls. Now, in my experience, this works best at the beginning of the sarge and is not necessary in the later stages. By actually lowering your voice, you force the girl to lean into you as well as give you the opportunity to kino and pull her in closer.

FR: Direct Continues to Grow on Me

So, I went to Wednesday tacos at Don Antonios with ch0n60, IC, and a few others. Tons of hot chicks there, but didn't open anything.

Ch0n60, a friend, and I decide to go to Busby's afterwards. The place is actually pretty decent for a Wednesday night. We grab some drinks, shoot some pool. Just chilling. Ch0n60 and I notice that there are an exceptionally abnormal number of cute girls out for a Wednesday. I wasn't planning on doing any sarging, but I figured, what the hell, I might as well do some since I got kicked off the pool table.

I first open this set that's watching the Dallas and Vancouver hockey game. HB LA Kings is totally into the game while her friend isn't as much. She's more of a sports fan and enjoys the playoff implications. Our other friend interrupts me and I kinda lose the set. I leave for a bit to go watch Ch0n60 and our friend play pool for a bit then go back to the 2 set. Re-open them and chat for a bit more, then leave.

The whole night we see this Asian guy and this really cute blonde, HB BayArea #2 on what seems like a date. However, there is so much space between them, you could fit three people in between them. HB BayArea #2 looks really bored. I'm debating whether or not to go in. Should I blow out my Asian brother?

He ends up leaving to go to the bathroom and Ch0n60 tells me to go in. I decide not to since I didn't want to be *that* guy that goes in whenever the guy leaves. I blow my chance. He comes back and I'm fucking pissed at myself for missing my opportunity.

We chill, play more pool. Some other Asian guy comes up to them and it seems like it's the other Asian dude's friend. They end up going to the patio to smoke.

Ch0n60 says that we should go out to the patio and try to open them.

We go out there. I have a smoke with our friend, but I don't want to blow out my Asian brothers and they look like the type that would get pissed off if I approached them.

We finish our smokes and I finish my beer. We all go back in to get another drink. Then I see her come back in to use the restroom. Ch0n60 tells me that this is my chance. I agree. Even though I run the risk of being *that* guy that waited for her to be alone, I know that if I don't do it, I will fucking hate myself forever, so I wait. I wait for her to come out, but not make it obvious.

She comes out and I walk toward her. She sees me walking toward her and she smiles. I smile back. I'm calm, cool, confident, and collected. I open direct.

D: "Excuse me, I know this is random, but I didn't want to interrupt your date. But I just had to come up to you and say that I think you're cute. My name is D."

HB BayArea #2: *smiles* "Hi, my name is HB BayArea #2."

Fluff talk.

HB: "hey, I'm going to the bar, you should come with me, if you want."

D: "Yeah, sure."

I introduce her to Ch0n60 and our friend.

We go to the bar and talk some more.

HB: "Yeah, my friend actually pointed you out and said, 'he's cute, isn't he?'"

D: "So how did you respond?"

HB: "I just kinda shrugged."

D: "WHAT?! *laughs* You're such a brat! I can't believe you didn't respond. OMG, I can't talk to you."

HB: *laughs*

We fluff talk more and she gets a drink.

She keeps looking out toward the patio while I'm talking, telling stories.

D: "OMG! You're such a brat! You keep looking out toward your friends! I can't believe you! I bet you didn't hear anything I said."

HB: "No no. I did." *smiles*

D: "Do you need to go back to your friends?"

HB: "No. I'm ok."

More fluff talk.

HB: "Well, I think I should get back to my friends. Do you have a cell phone?"

D: "Yeah, what's your number"

HB: Gives number.

D: "So what are you doing tomorrow?"

HB: "Work."

D: "Well, I know that. Afterwards."

HB: "Oh, I don't know."

D: "Well, I'm going to the Standard in downtown. You should come hang out."

HB: "Sure. You better call me."

D: "OK, I will."

End interaction.

Text her after I got home and she texted me back at 3AM with a really cool message. Seems like a sweet girl. I'll call her today. I think it's pretty solid. All this happened in about 5-10 minutes from open to close. Sweet.

FR: Starting to Like Direct

After having a late night on Friday, waking up early Saturday morning, driving to OC, and then driving back up to the Westside from OC late Saturday, I met up with Ulysses, Iconoclast, and jeromevincent at a wine bar in Santa Monica.

A 2 set walks in and I'm immediately attracted to the shorter brunette and Ulysses likes the tall brunette. We're not really doing anything but chatting between all the guys. We're all pretty exhausted from our individual adventures the night before. Being completely exhausted myself I wasn't really on top of my game, but I wanted to make up for a pretty uneventful (for me, not for everyone else) Friday night (on Friday, I opened one set and ended up winging the rest of the night because the girls didn't appeal to me and not to mention, it was Good Friday/Easter weekend and everything was dead).

As a result of being tired, my mind wasn't functioning and I couldn't come up with a good situational opener. The 2 set was seated at a small table up against the wall with no open seats around it and there was a group of 3 guys blocking the path to the 2 set as the 3 guys were talking to another set of 2 girls at the table next to the 2 set I had targeted. This wasn't going to be an easy set.

I decided to break out a direct opener since I was too tired/lazy to think of anything else. I tell Ulysses I'm going to go direct on the shorter one and that he should come in and help me wing since he likes the taller one.

I go to the bar, grab another beer, see an opening to the girls, and walk over...calmly...slowly...confidently.

I arrive at their table and they stop chatting and look at me.

"Hey guys, sorry to interrupt, but (looking at HB Tall) do you mind if I say something to your friend really fast?"

HB Tall: "Sure, go ahead."

D: "I saw you over here and I just had to come over and say that I think you're cute. My name's D."

Introductions all around.

Bunch of fluff talk. Start talking about wine. At this point, I'm trying to eyeball Ulysses to come over and wing since I have NO experience with wine and it's something that he really enjoys, but unfortunately, I don't think he picks up on my signal. I even say, "yeah, my friend would know..."

Obviously, this is not going anywhere. There were many points in the conversation that looking back at it a couple days later, I could have made the conversation a lot more interesting, but alas, my brain wasn't functioning at 100%.

Anyway, convo dies after about 5? 10? minutes and I eject with, "nice meeting you guys."

As I'm walking back, Ulysses is walking over to wing. I intercept him and he asks me what happened. I tell him things just kind of died, my target didn't seem all that interested. Her friend was more open. Tell her about our wine conversation and how I had no idea what to do. Ulysses tells me we should go back over there and for me to introduce him. Good idea.

We walk back over, I reopen them and tell them that this is the friend I was talking about. Introduce them to Ulysses. He does a ton of DHV talking about wine and wine bars. It's awesome. They're totally into it. The convo goes on for a while. I try to do some kino to my original target, but she's across the table, so I only do a few shoulder and arm touches.

Wine convo dies down. Ulysses then says something along the lines of, "you guys are attractive. what type of lines do you guys hear a lot from guys when you go out?" HB Tall then interjects and says, "actually, after D left, we were just talking about that. he came over cool, calm, collected and was non-threatening. it was really good. we liked that."

That made my night. It was good to get that feedback and know that my direct approach went well. If only I had known about wine...or maybe had not been so tired...oh well.

Anyway, further along in the convo, HB Short mentions she has a bf, but HB Tall does not. Oh well for me, but good for Ulysses. It was almost as if HB Short was offering up HB Tall to Ulysses. It was pretty awesome.

Anyway, Ulysses closed them while I went to the bathroom, so all in all, it was a good night.

Mini-FR: Getting Back to It

So after the debacle that was HB BayArea, I decided this weekend would be fun.

Well, it didn't work out so well on Friday as I had stayed up late Thursday night meeting HB TxModel, a friend of mine's new roommate, and then going to happy hour with coworkers after work on Friday. Ended up taking a "nap" at 8PM and waking up at midnight. It was too late to go out, so I just chilled and did nothing.

Spent Saturday at Cabo watching the NCAA Final Four. Ohio St. won and UCLA got beat down pretty good. Spent the whole time chatting with one of my old UCLA friends checking out all the hot girls in the bar. It got me in a pretty good state for the rest of the night.

First went to Finn McCool's with Ch0n60, Ulysses, Iconoclast, and Gucci, but not much was going on there. A couple of my friends call me up to go to Busby's so I decided to head out there and help them get in. It was a great decision.

We get there and I'm instantly social proofed since I know the bouncer and he lets me in for free upping my state even further. The whole night I flirted and talked to almost all of the girls I found attractive there. I was having a blast. There was only 1 girl that I can think of that I didn't talk to, but no loss. Anyway, there were a few girls worth noting:

1) Opened this cute brunette HB Fashion with "hey, I just had to say that I really like your style" as we're walking through the bar. She goes on to tell me "thanks. I just spilled my drink ALL over my top." We laugh and chat for a bit. She asks me if I'm in fashion and I saw no, but I just liked that she's able to stand out from all of the other girls in there. She goes to the dance floor to dance with her friends and I tell her it was nice meeting her. I go find my friends.

After talking to other girls and moving to another part of the bar, I see HB Fashion walking up with her friends. I wave and say hi, she responds well and says hi. I go and give her a hug and she laughs and gives me a hug back. She holds my hand, is laughing, and says, "we just met and we're already hugging!" I just smile, laugh, and say, "yeah, that's just how I am." Her friends are dragging her to the other side of the bar, so I don't really get to talk to her much or after that. Oh well.

2) This tall, like 5'9" brunette is standing next to my group and makes the off-handed comment about how "this song is terrible." so i start talking to her. don't really remember what, but i am kinoing her by putting my hand on her lower back while i talk to her and draw her in closer so that i can talk to her. her bf is giving me the "evil eye" as i talk to her. I wasn't in any mood to disarm him, so I just talked to her for a bit more then let her go back to her bf.

3) So this really cute waitress, blonde, 5'3"-4", comes up to us and asks us if we're ok and i respond that yeah, we're good, just having a good time. She smiles and starts dancing with my group of friends. We talk about something. She's about to leave and I say, "wait hold on" then put my hand out. She grabs it, I spin her then I tell her she can go now. She walks away, stops, turns, looks at me and then blows me a kiss. I wink back at her.

Good times. Man, I had a blast. Now, I just need to turn those social interactions into more solid interactions.